Interview
Joan Saslow & Allen Ascher
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ELT:What else distinguishes this series from others
of its kind?
Answered by Joan for both Allen and Joan: Both pedagogy
and content. Starting with pedagogy, learners in the EFL
setting lack exposure to the English language and opportunities
to practice. In our experience, textbooks don't come near
to providing enough quantity or quality of input, opportunities
for practice, or enough deliberate and varied recycling
to make English memorable. Most textbooks present something
on page, say 36, and then that language is never seen again
after page 38! It's impossible to acquire a foreign language
without enough multiple exposures, intensive practice, and
systematic recycling to make it memorable. We wrote Top
Notch to provide that to the student and the teacher in
the EFL setting and for that reality because there simply
are no materials that do that.
Considering content, if you look at the content of most
published textbook series, you can see immediately that
they are directed to a multi-cultural, multi-lingual class.
The perspective of almost all textbooks is understanding
life in the US or in the UK. However, students in the EFL
setting are learning in mono-cultural, monolingual classes
and preparing to use English to communicate largely with
other non-native speakers from a variety of both familiar
and unfamiliar cultures around the world. The fact is that
the center of students' English-speaking worlds is no longer
the US or Britain. We designed the content of Top Notch
especially for that student and that student alone, not
for the student seeking to immigrate or live in the US.
That's part of what we referred to earlier when we said
our shared belief is that materials should be designed either
for the EFL setting or the ESL setting, not both.
ELT:How much do teachers actually use the companion
websites to the series?
Answered by Joan for both Allen and Joan:The
Top Notch companion website has just gone live so we don't
have that information, but Longman's other course companion
websites are heavily used because they provide real teaching
and learning support, not just advertising.
ELT:Both of you have taught English to Japanese university students in
the United States. From your experience of teaching students
in and from other countries, do you see any particular qualities
that set your Japanese students apart?
Answered by Joan for both Allen and Joan: Most
educators agree that though Japanese students have an extremely
good grounding in grammar, they have difficulty in free
oral and written expression. One reason for this is a lack
of exposure to real conversational English. The language
and listening material in communicative courses comes as
a bit of a shock when the pedagogy you've been exposed to
is primarily reading and grammar-based. In our experience,
Japanese students are, however, much more confident and
successful if they are provided with activities that give
them a lot of support. Merely setting out a topic for discussion,
even if students have learned the vocabulary and grammar
necessary to discuss it, is not enough. Japanese students,
perhaps more than others, benefit from step-by-step language
planning activities (such as note- padding, on-the-page
reminders of language already known, surveys, realia, etc.)
to help them frame their ideas and access the language that
lies within them. We believe the fault lies more in the
usual pedagogy found in textbooks than in the nationality
of the student. For that reason, we have included in the
Top Notch series a set of discussion practice activities
("Top Notch Interactions") specifically designed
for the student who needs this sort of support.
Without systematic support (such as that provided in activities
like the Top Notch Interactions), many Japanese students
are unlikely to participate fully in class discussions,
and therefore will not develop the essential ability to
express themselves freely. Expression, finally, is one of
the most important goals of language study, but without
practice, students don't grow. And then what some may think
is a lack of ability becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
We, however, have both had positive results with Japanese
students in classroom discussions. When the pedagogy of
the classroom and the textbook provide enough support, Japanese
students are able to speak more fluently, accurately, confidently,
freely, and with greater complexity. Author Marc Helgeson
pointed that out in a panel discussion on the research basis
for textbook development at International TESOL in San Antonio
earlier this year. And our own experience with Japanese
students confirms this assertion.
ELT:You've both been in Japan recently. Do you notice
any changes in university English teaching here?
Answered by Joan for both Allen and Joan: Over
the years, we've heard from a number of teachers and administrators
that students are entering universities at a much lower
level of English proficiency. The low-beginning learner
- or very weak false-beginner - requires much more language
support and opportunities for controlled practice than in
the past. So this led us to begin our series Top Notch with
a Fundamentals level, a highly enriched yet very low level
communicative textbook to provide a thorough grounding in
the "fundamentals": fundamental grammar, social
language, conversation strategies, and vocabulary. In our
experience, many "starter level" or "opener"
level textbooks assume too much prior knowledge and ability,
so we wanted to create a textbook that would build confidence
while still respecting the adult student who may have had
years of prior study. Key to confidence-building is making
sure students receive multiple exposures to each new language
taught, lots of opportunities for varied practice so they
will remember it, and a tremendous amount of recycling.
ELT:Allen, you've taught in China. How do you see the
English teaching industry developing there over the next
decade or so?
AA: I was there way back in 1985 through 1987,
and at that time English classes were very "grammar
translation." Some language institutes were just opening
up to more communicative methodologies, and I had the opportunity
to observe some phenomenal teachers - but they were the
ones who tended to move overseas to Australia, the US, or
the UK, rather than contributing to the profession in China.
In my speaking classes, many students had the same reluctance
to speak that so many Japanese students have. There were,
of course, always a few talkative students who desperately
wanted to converse with me, and the easy thing to do would
have been to chat with them and ignore the rest. So they
were usually quite shocked when I continued to insist on
class participation by all students. Everything in China
has changed so much since that time, so I'm sure language
teaching has also seen some great leaps forward (if you'll
excuse my choice of words!).
ELT: Joan, last year you gave a plenary entitled,
"Irresistible English: How to Keep Adult Students Coming
Back for More." No doubt, many school owners in Japan
would love to hear what you had to say...
JS:
Adults face a choice when enrolling in an English course
and usually pay money for their instruction. Making English
"irresistible" means understanding their needs
and desires and constructing a course around content and
pedagogy that is highly appealing. We mentioned content
and pedagogy earlier, and we feel that all course and textbook
content decisions should be geared to the real needs of
the learner. Adults find relevant, practical content irresistible
and are irritated by boring, irrelevant content. They know
well how they will be using English outside of class. Adults,
unlike children, choose to enroll in English courses. They
have limited time. They don't want to be infantilized or
embarrassed by the classroom. Most importantly, they need
to see tangible progress in each class session and need
to see progress in each course. For each class session,
students must know what the communication goal is and actually
achieve that goal in a communication activity before leaving
class. We have written lessons with that in mind. When students
see progress and learn content that is relevant to their
use of English as an international language, they re-enroll.
Word gets around fast when a school provides that kind of
value.
ELT:Thank you both for taking the time to talk with us.
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